March 21

There is no question, based on the consensus of personnel men in the NFL, that Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich and Kyle Boller are entrenched as the top three quarterbacks in the 2003 draft. Let it be noted, however, that none of those guys is carrying a can't-miss endorsement at this stage.

You will get an even wider -- no, wilder -- range of opinions on the next three quarterbacks: Chris Simms, Dave Ragone and Rex Grossman. They all had workouts this week. They didn't hurt themselves, but did they change some minds?

Here's the deal:

Chris Simms, Texas
The cross he carries is no longer that he is the son of Phil Simms, the former Super Bowl MVP of the New York Giants. The cross he carries is this: "He can't win the big game."

	Chris Simms threw 24 TDs and 11 INTs last season for Texas.

"That's a ridiculous tag," said Giants coach Jim Fassel, who ran Simms' workout for the NFL teams on hand this week. "One person says something, everybody repeats it, and it becomes fact. It's misleading and basically irrelevant."

Countered another coach: "Zero touchdown passes, 14 interceptions, in games against top 10 teams. That's a fact."

"That's too convenient," argued another. "I think he's a victim of expectations. People get carried away."

A personnel man: "The game that hurt him the most was the Colorado game for the Big 12 championship (in 2001). I mean, he played some great Oklahoma defenses. But the Colorado game, the way it unfolded, it was just a disaster for Simms. That's the game that bothers me, but I think you have to work through that."

"I mean, he did win some big games. He went on the road and beat Kansas State the week after he lost to Oklahoma this past season. Ask Carson Palmer and USC what it was like to play Kansas State in Manhattan. They got handled. Simms beat Oklahoma State, he beat LSU in the Cotton Bowl. I'm not sure Palmer and Kyle Boller would have enjoyed playing in the Big 12."

Simms has physical tools that are attractive. At his workout, he threw about 120 passes and never tired.

"He let it rip pretty good," said Fassel. "He demonstrated a lot of things that we're all looking for. He was much more athletic with his feet than most people perceive. He definitely has the arm strength, a legitimate pro arm, no questions about it. I see him as a guy who has all the tools physically and I know the guy is intelligent, he's competitive and he has the work ethic. What are you looking for?"

Simms is 6-4½, 222 and he has surprised scouts by running the 40 between 4.7 and 4.8.

"Yeah, that surprises me because I didn't see that kind of mobility, but maybe I have to look closer," said a scout. "Carson Palmer is the same size and he moves better than Simms."

Still, not everyone is on board.

"He doesn't do much for me," said one personnel man whose team is likely to draft a quarterback. "He's got the arm strength, true. But his delivery is a little slow at times and I think he's a little slow finding stuff over the middle. That's why you get the turnovers. I think that could extend itself into this league."

Another personnel director, also looking at quarterbacks, seemed to be in genuine debate with himself, trying to reconcile the visible physical gifts that Simms has displayed in postseason work at the Senior Bowl, Scouting Combine and the personal workout against what he called a "flawed collegiate career."

"Here's what makes it even tougher read: Did he really get the help he needed at Texas?" he asked. "When you watch him you wonder about the scheme, about the orchestration of it. The apex of his drops combined with the routes, well, the whole thing looked out of sync. He would drop, he would wait and wait, and nothing timed out very well with his receivers. Was that Simms' fault, or the scheme? Or was it a combination?"

Fassel said that an NFL team in hunt of a quarterback (the Giants are not) in the first or second round must be equipped to project Simms into the pro game.

"Too many times the people judging talent in this league look at a guy and think, 'That's the finished product,'" he said. "They never evaluate to the total picture. That's where teams makes mistakes, especially with quarterbacks. I think Chris Simms has as much upside as any quarterback in the whole draft."

One offensive coordinator (who has yet to weigh in) does see upside in Simms, conflicted with doubt: "When you talk to him, when you look at him, you see a very young guy. He still talks like a teenager, although he's a great kid. He's very blond, very fair, and he still has a lot of maturity ahead of him. To me, that means he's not ready by a long shot. I wouldn't be surprised if he disappoints somebody the first time around, and then five years from now we're talking about how everybody missed on Chris Simms."

Rex Grossman, Florida
His work at the Scouting Combine was a near disaster in the eyes of many scouts. Grossman's throws were too low and too high. His mechanics were flawed. And it hurt him because, unlike the other quarterbacks who are highly-rated, he was not able to work at the Senior Bowl because of his underclassman status.

He improved his stock Wednesday in pro day at Gainesville, Fla.

"He threw better, a lot better," said one scout. "But, look, he can throw. He just got messed up at the Combine. He changed his mechanics and that was ill-advised. He just needs to be himself and he was this week."

But even this scout says that doesn't necessarily translate into first-round status despite some comparisons to Brett Favre.

"Yeah, he's got that Favre-ish label, but that's inaccurate and probably unfair," said the scout. "Favre is a tall 6-2, really 6-2½. Grossman surprised me that he came in at 6-1 because he looks like a short 6-1. Grossman has a strong arm, he can let it rip, but it's not Favre's arm."

Size seems to weigh as a heavy negative for Grossman.

"It's not just the height, because plenty of 6-1-and-under guys have had success in this league," said a scout. "But he's short-armed, he's stubby-fingered, he's heavy (220) and he ran a pretty slow 40 (5.1). And he's erratic."

Well, Favre's career has been spectacularly erratic

"I like him," said one personnel director. "He does have that wild side and that has an upside and a downside. He's cocky. He thinks a lot of himself, maybe too much, and that could hurt him. But that cockiness can carry him through a lot of things. In fact, I got concerned at the Combine because he seemed to get a little despondent when he threw some balls in the ground."

Grossman's slow 40 time did not concern many of the scouts.

"Watch him on film and you see a guy who moves around and finds a way to make plays, and throws the ball from a lot of different angles," said a scout. "That's probably another reason why you see the Favre comparisons."

"Yeah," countered one, "but I got a feeling he's going to be forced to make more plays than he's capable."

One team that is looking closely at Grossman sounds reluctant for other reasons.

"He's been productive, but his biggest production was in Spurrier's system and we all know the track record of those quarterbacks -- not very good in this league," said a personnel man. "He had a new system thrown at him this year and he was so-so. So, really, until you get him in training camp, you really don't know how he's going to respond to another system."

Finally, one team that also is contemplating Grossman as a second-round selection, made this evaluation: "I'd take my chance with him, but not in the first round. Heck, Favre wasn't a first-rounder. This kid does make plays. He's got plenty of arm. He's played in a big-time program and had success. And if you really think he's having a problem with his height -- hey, that's one of the reasons why you use the shotgun."

Dave Ragone , Louisville
Ragone has rebounded well from a poor Senior Bowl week with a strong Combine showing and a solid workout this week, despite the rain in Louisville.

"He's probably been on the biggest rollercoaster ride of anybody," said a scout. "I mean, Boller's been on nothing but the rise. Ragone started high, slipped terribly and now he's grading up again."

Ragone, a left-hander like Simms, is big at just under 6-4. It's his weight at 249 pounds that draws skepticism.

"He's a heavy-legged guy and it really affects his mobility," said a scout. "He has a hard time getting away from the rush. I was disappointed with his 40 (4.94). I thought he'd run better and I thought he'd be quicker."

Most everyone agrees that Ragone's senior season was ragged, but they don't pin it all on him.

"His protection was terrible," said a personnel man. "He got beat up. I think he probably had to keep that weight on just to handle the beating. All in all, he was pretty productive in his career and I think he's a heck of a competitor."

Added another scout: "Really, from his junior to senior season, he lost a lot of O-linemen and people found out he lost a pretty good receiver in Deion Branch. Most quarterbacks struggle under those circumstances and he still made plenty of big plays."

Another sees him as a worthwhile project.

"He needs some work, especially with his feet," said a scout. "He throws a really good long ball. Like a lot of lefties, for some reason, he's good on the outside stuff, the go routes, the fades. But he's not as sharp, keen or aware of the crossing routes. So, he's got tools to work with, but he does need work."

That was echoed by a team that has dismissed Ragone: "His framing is off a lot of times, meaning the ball does down more often than you like. He's got a stiff upper body."

Another offensive coordinator said he would take his chance with Ragone.

"He's steady and he plays tall -- you don't see him get a lot of balls tipped," this coach said. "I see a strong arm. I see productivity. I see a tough guy and you better be a tough guy to play in this league.