PHILADELPHIA -- Saint Joseph's hasn't been an elite team, nor could it boast Final Four credentials. As for expectations? Likely starting the season within the top 10 -- let alone staying in the top 25 throughout the season -- will be new experiences for the Hawks during 2001-02 season.

But the Hawks haven't had two guards like Jameer Nelson and Marvin O'Connor nor the depth of seniors like Bill Phillips, Na'im Crenshaw or Damian Reid.

	Phil Martelli has another group of Hawks creating a national buzz.

Not in 1997 when they went to the Sweet 16. Perhaps, not ever.

"We're not hiding from it," Saint Joseph's coach Phil Martelli said. "We're not poor mouthing it. I don't have a problem with people saying we're this good. We had 2,000 of our 3,000 students here for Midnight Madness, so the enthusiasm here is off the charts. Are we one of the top 10 teams? I don't know. But we should be in that discussion."

The Hawks' chemistry, an overused word but definitely true at a level where egos have to be massaged almost daily, makes this team a legit Final Four contender. The losing was too fresh for the seniors, an unknown for the sophomore Nelson, for the players to think about being satisfied with a second-round NCAA Tournament loss to Stanford last March and all the preseason hype they're receiving.

"It's scary because I've never been at this end," said Reid. "We've never been this good. We're going to lose games, close ones, maybe get blown out and we know that. But we all want that tournament feeling again. We all know we can get back."

Saint Joseph's is already looking at Atlantic 10 and city rival Temple as an example. The Owls usually come in with the preseason rankings, only to lose a high-profile game and then drop out of sight for a month. Then, nearly every season, they make a late run and are a tough out in March. That early loss, or losses, could occur when the Hawks likely play Cal (Nov. 16 at Black Coaches Association Classic), Colorado (Nov. 25), possibly North Carolina in Charlotte (Dec. 22) or host Gonzaga (Dec. 31).

"We can't lose a game and have everyone's head drop," Martelli said. "I won't let it slip. Now wherever we go, we're going to have teams wanting to beat us. We've never had that, whereas Temple has for years. We'll have to answer the bell against Eastern Washington (Nov. 15 opener) because they'll probably spend five weeks waiting to play us to make their mark."

The Hawks have never had this depth under Martelli. He can go two-deep at every position, albeit with inexperienced players. Nelson won't be off the floor for more than a minute, but Tyrone Barley can play the point in a pinch. O'Connor and Crenshaw have decent scoring, albeit young, backups in freshmen Delonte West and Pat Carroll. Both can make the long-range 3-pointer and West has the ability to create off the dribble and get his own shot. Freshmen Jamal Nichols is a wide body still learning the game but he can score in the post. Freshman Dwayne Jones (6-11) has a few post moves that can be developed into reliable buckets behind Reid and sixth starter 7-1 junior Alexandre Sazonov.

Neither Reid nor Sazonov have a money move in the post, but both can score on a first or second shot. But they've got to be consistent for the Hawks to have a presence when they need a basket late in the game. The beauty of this team is Nelson doesn't have to count on them if he wants to take his defender off the dribble and go to the basket. O'Connor won't hesitate from pulling up for the 3-pointer with the clock winding down.

"Guard play, experience and the confidence we have puts us at a high level," Martelli said. "But we need a low-post presence on defense and on offense. We need (Reid and Sazonov) to step it up a notch."

The depth is a concern for Martelli, not in potential, but in readiness. The reality is, replacing Nelson will be a sophomore. Coming in for O'Connor and Crenshaw are freshmen. The same is true inside.

"They're good, but they're not ready for this level," Martelli said. "They might be alright for Duquesne, but not Temple on ABC."

That's why this is a program, and not just a team. Barring injuries, freshmen like West and Nichols, potential cornerstones of the program, don't have to be rushed onto the court this season. The Hawks have been here before without the reserves. They fell hard after reaching the Sweet 16 in 1997, when they had three starters returning but one (Arthur Davis) who wasn't eligible the next season. As a result, St. Joe's failed to win more than 13 games over the next three seasons, going 11-17, 12-18 and 13-16 until last season's 26-7 run.

"There is a lot of loose usage of a high-major and a mid-major," Martelli said. "The high major begins each year and says, 'Where's the Final Four?' and plans on being there. The mid-major builds toward that one year to move into that group of 10 or 12 teams. We can't get to that level every year. We'll come back a bit. But it's a compliment if someone says you've got a real good program, not just a real good team. That's what we work for. I don't want us to go away."

Going to the Final Four may be that once in a lifetime season. Getting consistently to the second weekend, like Gonzaga, certainly helps perception and does wonders for the image of the program.

"We've got the talent to do that," O'Connor said. "We know we haven't always been good. We don't want go back. We're one of the best teams in America. Now we've got to prove it."

Andy Katz is a senior writer at ESPN.com.